EP 110 Ask Away
A welcomed, wide open conversation with PRCA Director of Rodeo Administration Steve Knowles. To his credit, no questions were off limits and his answers were candid.
Transcript
Howdy, everybody.
Speaker:Bob Tallman for No Spin Rodeo.
Speaker:No politics, no BS.
Speaker:Just hard hitting news, and
Speaker:rodeo commentary from two of the most trusted sources in our sport.
Speaker:Kendra Santos, Tommy Joe Lucia.
Speaker:Listen up.
Speaker:Here we go.
Speaker:Hello, no spinners.
Speaker:Welcome to episode 110.
Speaker:110 of No Span Rodeo.
Speaker:Thank you all, if you're setting in your car, if you're watching us on YouTube.
Speaker:However, you're listening to us.
Speaker:Welcome also, um, I'm
Speaker:I'm Robin to this Batman.
Speaker:Um, Batwoman, the 1st lady of pro
Speaker:rodeo journalism.
Speaker:Good September morning, Kendra Santos.
Speaker:How are you today?
Speaker:Can you believe Labor Day is coming at us this week?
Speaker:Amazing.
Speaker:It's a, it's a, it's a, um, It's
Speaker:a symptom of getting older and that is time goes faster.
Speaker:And when you get older, that's all you talk about.
Speaker:As you get older, if you notice, you talk about how much you go to the bathroom,
Speaker:how fast time is flying and who all has died.
Speaker:Um, I, that's so funny because I,
Speaker:I just had this conversation with Od a couple nights ago.
Speaker:Me?
Speaker:Most evenings, if I'm around home,
Speaker:I'm watching the sun go down in my hammock and I set down some
Speaker:new ground rolls a couple nights ago and I said, here's
Speaker:what we're not going to do as we get older.
Speaker:The golden years are not going to amount to us talking about while we
Speaker:ate today and anything to do with the bathroom.
Speaker:Did you have your prunes?
Speaker:Four prunes, Kendra, before noon.
Speaker:Not having it.
Speaker:Well, you better keep it in mind because
Speaker:if you don't go to the bathroom, it's not a good thing.
Speaker:So that's all I'm saying.
Speaker:That's important to a man, by the way, in case you didn't know that as a woman.
Speaker:Like going the restroom is an important
Speaker:feature of life for the typical male, just so you know.
Speaker:Here's though, what I've noticed in a lifetime of having, you know.
Speaker:A dad, grandpa, uncles,
Speaker:brothers, sons.
Speaker:Whatever all men.
Speaker:It's like this big event.
Speaker:Women are like, I talked to Od about this.
Speaker:He's like, yes, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm doing laundry today.
Speaker:I'm going to the post office.
Speaker:I'm like, that never makes a woman's to do list.
Speaker:You do these things, you know, like.
Speaker:The oven getting cleaned is not on the to-do list,
Speaker:but it will happen today, but it's just a side note.
Speaker:Because we're, I think we're more of multitaskers
Speaker:and you guys want to crown if you go to the bathroom.
Speaker:It's like, okay.
Speaker:Anyway, moving on.
Speaker:Moving on.
Speaker:How's how's the world?
Speaker:In Utah, it's fantastic.
Speaker:And I hope this happens in Texas soon.
Speaker:It feels like fall, praise God.
Speaker:Like, you can tell that
Speaker:the heat has broken in Utah, and
Speaker:I pray for that in Texas soon.
Speaker:Yes, um, well,
Speaker:I'm in California, right at the moment, and it's,
Speaker:uh, def- it's gone from above 100 to about 80.
Speaker:Very recently.
Speaker:We do, though, we, this is kind of the time
Speaker:of year, this in springtime when we get some foggy mornings, which are really cool.
Speaker:And when it gets really hot, the fog,
Speaker:right over the mountains where I can see, you know, rolls in
Speaker:off the ocean and cools everything off, so it's kind of a blessing
Speaker:to our weather pattern, which is why we've attracted Joe Beaver
Speaker:to the central coast of California, by the way, it's our weather.
Speaker:But, um, Or maybe it helps the joints.
Speaker:Well, there, and there's, but there's also
Speaker:been a lot of uh, fire smoke, wildfire smoke
Speaker:haze in a lot of different places, including here.
Speaker:Yeah, there's the, of course,
Speaker:there's lots of smoke in North Central Texas with that big
Speaker:Ross fire, praying for all the families and the structures and the cattle.
Speaker:But it does look in the last few days like, again, I'm not a fireman.
Speaker:And all I get is to try to find the credible reports.
Speaker:Um, but it has small spread lines, but they're
Speaker:able to do, they're, they're starting to be able to kind
Speaker:of make it live within itself.
Speaker:Um, and maybe it won't grow so
Speaker:much anymore.
Speaker:I mean, it was jumping, you know, 20,000 acres or something a
Speaker:night, and it doesn't look like it's doing that.
Speaker:And so maybe, and then there's rain.
Speaker:there's rain, there's like a hurricane thing coming in and Houston
Speaker:and up there's getting it.
Speaker:think it's going to push far enough up there for the Ross fire, but man,
Speaker:it's deadly dangerous.
Speaker:It's deadly dangerous.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:And it was interesting because one of the guy that takes care of
Speaker:my place sent me a note.
Speaker:He said, hey, I think you probably should brush hog your place and I said,
Speaker:do you realize that that's how most of the fires start in Texas when it's this dry?
Speaker:Is brush hogging?
Speaker:People hit rocks, start a spark.
Speaker:You don't brush hog when it's this dry, people,
Speaker:and oh, guess what?
Speaker:You don't weld on the fence.
Speaker:Oh, and guess what?
Speaker:You don't park a hot truck in the middle of the field.
Speaker:I mean, these people just keep doing stupid things.
Speaker:Yeah, I got a scary call a few years ago,
Speaker:a guy, a sweet old rancher driving down our
Speaker:little 2 lane road had, like his tailpipe
Speaker:was dragging or something and started everything on fire.
Speaker:Um, it happens pretty easily.
Speaker:Also, I can't believe in this day and age people throw cigarette
Speaker:butts out the window, but some people still do.
Speaker:But um, anyway, as we roll into Labor Day weekend.
Speaker:For me, that means Ellensburg, right?
Speaker:And so I think, uh, really cool, uh,
Speaker:congratulations to Sage Kimsy, uh,
Speaker:Stephen Peebles, who, came back from a
Speaker:terrible healthcare a couple years ago and the Orchid
Speaker:family, congratulations on being inducted into the Ellensburg Hall of Fame.
Speaker:And I, Couldn't
Speaker:make it till the very end for the best of the best roping that they
Speaker:had last night there at the rodeo grounds, but I got
Speaker:up before the chickens this morning and watched the
Speaker:tail end of the open of the best of the best roping right there and
Speaker:um, Cody Snow and Nikki Northcott won a pile.
Speaker:At the roping, um, preliminary.
Speaker:I know they're having slack today.
Speaker:It's it's Wednesday the 2nd and Slack is
Speaker:um, lighting up the Ellensburg
Speaker:rodeo grounds, but really cool when you can
Speaker:put 10s of 1000s of dollars in your pocket on the eve of Slack.
Speaker:So, thank you, Ellensburg.
Speaker:Well, and you're going to join me in Pendleton, which is very exciting.
Speaker:I'm working and getting ready for the rank
Speaker:45 Pendleton Expols finale at the Happy Canyon Arena.
Speaker:That's what I get to contribute to the Pendleton roundup.
Speaker:And interesting like, Side note.
Speaker:Um, There,
Speaker:there's a bar down by the ground up grounds that
Speaker:was traditionally always open late, that's not
Speaker:going to be open late this year.
Speaker:So the Pendleton Committee is going to keep their fan zone
Speaker:during the bull riding and stuff open later because
Speaker:everybody used to walk across the street and now they can't.
Speaker:So, interesting side note, I don't know why a bar
Speaker:would close early in Pendleton, but that's what I hear.
Speaker:Guess what?
Speaker:We have a special guest that I think is fixing to come on.
Speaker:So we're going to, we think it's a proper time to welcome
Speaker:to our studio, the director of rodeo
Speaker:administration for the professional rodeo cowboys association, Steve Knowles.
Speaker:Hello, Steve.
Speaker:Good morning to y'all.
Speaker:I assume you're sitting in Colorado and you haven't started riding
Speaker:your bike to Wyoming yet.
Speaker:I haven't been sitting in Colorado Springs.
Speaker:It's still summertime here.
Speaker:I just mentioned it's becoming fall in Utah.
Speaker:You're not seeing any signs of fall there in the springs.
Speaker:It's 90 degrees today for the high.
Speaker:So we've had record heat
Speaker:here for so far.
Speaker:Well, that's fantastic.
Speaker:Well, good morning.
Speaker:Thank you for joining us
Speaker:We're just going to do a little round table with you.
Speaker:I will say this, because our fans, I think,
Speaker:um, you know, Kendra's fans on ours, I've
Speaker:been in this business a really long time, and I've,
Speaker:I think that you've done the
Speaker:very best job in that position that I've ever
Speaker:seen for a couple of reasons.
Speaker:For one, I think you're straightforward.
Speaker:Um, and and part of what I want to get
Speaker:into today is that all of the
Speaker:armchair quarterbacks, you know, it's very interesting, and I I've
Speaker:mentioned this before, I learned this when I got on a school board.
Speaker:Before I got on the school board, I thought everybody was doing everything wrong.
Speaker:And when I got on the board, I realized that there's so
Speaker:much information that people don't have when a decision is made.
Speaker:And 90% of the time people are making decisions that
Speaker:they think are best based on the information they have.
Speaker:And so my point is, and then I'll turn it over to Kendra to visit with you a little bit.
Speaker:This is a thankless job and I think, and
Speaker:I'm not saying this because you're on.
Speaker:I'm telling my, the people that trust me, Steve
Speaker:Knowles is is a good one and does the PRC an
Speaker:excellent job in a very demanding position.
Speaker:So, Kendra,
Speaker:I'll let you fire away at Steve with some questions and then I'll I'll
Speaker:throw some in and we'll get this thing started.
Speaker:Okay, well.
Speaker:As the girl who 1st started at the PRCA
Speaker:on January 12th, 1987 fresh out of college.
Speaker:There's, this is a random question,
Speaker:but just curious, like.
Speaker:I would so often hear when
Speaker:I was, you know, brand new, fresh face, you know.
Speaker:It was so often said,
Speaker:the part of the culture in the office was those
Speaker:stupid cowboys, like they were a pain in the ass, you know?
Speaker:Please tell me that in 2026,
Speaker:the culture of the office.
Speaker:Has evolved beyond that.
Speaker:It has evolved, and I remind people,
Speaker:we still have people probably here that were started close to the time you are.
Speaker:The culture, you know, we work for this association.
Speaker:those are our customers.
Speaker:Um, you know, even when I got here, it was so much
Speaker:we were in charge.
Speaker:We told them.
Speaker:They worked for us, but it's not, we work for them.
Speaker:And we can't always give in to everything they want to do.
Speaker:But we do try to help people.
Speaker:You know, we, I always try to find a way to say yes.
Speaker:Uh, and it's hard to always say that,
Speaker:but that's always my goal is to say yes to whatever the question is.
Speaker:Sometimes I can't.
Speaker:As long as it's compliant to the rule book.
Speaker:As long as compliant to the rule book, if we can help somebody
Speaker:out, we we want to.
Speaker:That's our goal.
Speaker:You know, is to make it easy.
Speaker:We we hate fines.
Speaker:We hate conflicts.
Speaker:We want to try to please as many people as we can.
Speaker:Within the rules.
Speaker:And yet in a way, I mean,
Speaker:I always know that you have a thankless job.
Speaker:I've known a lot of directors of radio administration and it is very,
Speaker:it's very tough because you get, what, mostly
Speaker:complaint calls, right?
Speaker:People questioning something and then you have to.
Speaker:It's not always fun to answer the questions, right?
Speaker:But my question is, I feel like it's impossible.
Speaker:Here, it's, it's, if you work for the PRCA,
Speaker:it's a member organization.
Speaker:So the way I always would say when those, when
Speaker:people would say, oh, those, those stupid cowboys, I'd be like, that's our boss.
Speaker:That's who we work for.
Speaker:But it's, it is.
Speaker:It feels like it's fundamentally impossible.
Speaker:to make everyone happy
Speaker:when you're talking about members being contestants,
Speaker:stock contractors, contract personnel, right?
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:And I find 90% of my calls are
Speaker:not even questions I can answer.
Speaker:They just want to be heard.
Speaker:You know, if you'll listen, take the time to listen to somebody.
Speaker:It'll satisfy it a lot of times.
Speaker:You know, there is hard questions that I do have to answer, but just
Speaker:listen, you know.
Speaker:Be a good listener.
Speaker:That's what I think that's what I'm good at.
Speaker:So did I hear you say earlier?
Speaker:That all of your decisions are based
Speaker:on the rule book.
Speaker:Well, I would like to think so.
Speaker:I've made decisions with my heart.
Speaker:Also, that usually bites me in the butt
Speaker:at the end of the day.
Speaker:Fair enough.
Speaker:You know, if you're a compassionate person, it's hard not to, to
Speaker:let your emotions get involved on decision making.
Speaker:I've been wrong a lot of times.
Speaker:So, but I try to stick by my decision right or wrong.
Speaker:How do you serve the
Speaker:top 15, which is the minority of the membership?
Speaker:And also serve.
Speaker:Those who are not top 15 types
Speaker:who make up the majority.
Speaker:How do you do that?
Speaker:You know, I don't, I guess my most of my time has dealt
Speaker:with non-top 15 issues.
Speaker:Um, You know, the top 15, they're they're the winners.
Speaker:They the Korean.
Speaker:They're going to they're going to win the most.
Speaker:Uh, you know, most of my, you know, I do a lot of
Speaker:circuit level decisions and conversations.
Speaker:You know, that's the guys.
Speaker:I really strive to help the circuit guys.
Speaker:You know, that is the back boat of what we have.
Speaker:The top 15 is always going to be successful.
Speaker:But you're killing the circuit guys by letting by
Speaker:letting all of these sharks in every circuit.
Speaker:I know.
Speaker:I know.
Speaker:Whose decision?
Speaker:Whose decision is that?
Speaker:Well, it's always the board makes the decisions.
Speaker:I just have to go by the board's decision.
Speaker:Doesn't it feel like that's cutting the throat of the circuit guys on our own?
Speaker:It is, it is, but also the top 15,
Speaker:they support the circuit.
Speaker:So I have the, I have their back.
Speaker:They're willing to go to the 15 rodeos that
Speaker:support their circuit.
Speaker:They're a circuit cowboy defeat, even though they, they're
Speaker:also NFR cowboy.
Speaker:I think you can be both.
Speaker:It's hard, but you can be both.
Speaker:Is the circuit system there too?
Speaker:Serve circuit contestants or the top 15?
Speaker:Well, circuit.
Speaker:Circuit people, which can be a top 15 guy.
Speaker:And in Tommy Joe's circuit, the wilderness, it's a monster.
Speaker:They have the biggest, best rodeos as circuit rodeos.
Speaker:You know, so if they go to the 15 minimum
Speaker:requirement, 15 rodeos, the right family.
Speaker:They're circuit cowboys.
Speaker:Even though they're able to make the, you know, R.
Speaker:You know, you can be both, in my opinion, as well.
Speaker:And it's, it's not.
Speaker:It's not the, it's not the top 15's
Speaker:fault that they're able to go to 15 circuit
Speaker:rodeos and win more than the circuit guys that
Speaker:can go to 40.
Speaker:It's not their fault.
Speaker:And I don't know that it's fair to cut them out in it.
Speaker:And, and, you know, I, I've been, I've been
Speaker:talking with people about this, and they're like, whoa, you just, you
Speaker:just go off of their driver's license.
Speaker:Well, let me tell you something.
Speaker:There's kids that get into the Brock school that use the
Speaker:grandparents' addresses.
Speaker:There's always ways around that.
Speaker:So don't don't give me that.
Speaker:But, you know, kindred, it is kind of fair.
Speaker:If a guy can go there to 15 rodeos, is that the, is that the minimum,
Speaker:you have to compete in a circuit to be able to, be a circuit guy?
Speaker:It is, it is now, as a circuit
Speaker:resident, 15 is the minimum.
Speaker:And I think it's dependent on how many rodeos are in your circuit.
Speaker:I think they can go as high as 18.
Speaker:That's up to the circuit board.
Speaker:Well, if you're if you're a non-fundamentally,
Speaker:if you're a non-resident, you have to go to more rodeos to count that circuit, right?
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:Yeah, 15's the, uh, you know, 15 would be the circuit rather.
Speaker:You know, but as Tommy Joe said,
Speaker:You know, they have, where do they live?
Speaker:Who knows where they live?
Speaker:You know, they consider.
Speaker:You know, we just got to go by where they get their mail.
Speaker:Um, you know, where they pay their power bill.
Speaker:Who knows?
Speaker:I have a Florida tiger's license, Tommy Joe.
Speaker:You know, I've been living in Colorado Springs, so there you go.
Speaker:I, I, On the circuit
Speaker:thing, I mean, this is a, this is a conversation that's gone on for,
Speaker:for decades and and, and I, I went to the 1st
Speaker:ever DNCFR, you know, precursor
Speaker:to the RNCFR and now the NFR open in Pocatello,
Speaker:Idaho in 1987.
Speaker:And, and a few years in, maybe around
Speaker:1994.
Speaker:So when Jake and Clay were winning their 7th world titles or whatever.
Speaker:I remember being at the national circuit finals,
Speaker:and Jake Barnes was like a brother to me, and him saying, Kendra,
Speaker:we shouldn't be here, and they won it like a record number of times.
Speaker:And he said, this is this is supposed to be the
Speaker:day in the sun for the circuit guys.
Speaker:But it counts, and so we have to be here.
Speaker:And I don't know what you guys say to that, but it's
Speaker:like, should the NFR Open count toward the world standings?
Speaker:What do you guys think?
Speaker:Personally, I think, yes, I think
Speaker:if you're able to qualify there, you should count.
Speaker:I'm a big guy that everything should count.
Speaker:You know, all your money once you tell.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:I do see the circuit, you know, I know Jack Hanna very well.
Speaker:He's the designer, the father of the circuit system.
Speaker:So, You know, I know what he had in mind and
Speaker:it wasn't for the top 15 guys.
Speaker:It's just change with the money.
Speaker:you know the money's so big.
Speaker:Uh, The circuit rodeos are bigger.
Speaker:It's a double edged sword, and our board flips every other year,
Speaker:whether it counts, whether it doesn't count.
Speaker:Um, you know,
Speaker:Whatever way we go, we always make half the people angry.
Speaker:Well, that's a problem in itself because when you go to
Speaker:changing rules every other year, and somebody's worked really
Speaker:hard this year, to comply with the rules as
Speaker:they are, and then they flip next year, it's very frustrating, as you well
Speaker:know, pretty good.
Speaker:you know, it was on our,
Speaker:It was on our board agenda this year to discuss with
Speaker:new rules, whether it counted or not.
Speaker:They didn't act on it.
Speaker:Um, But they could have, you know, they could have switched right now.
Speaker:And you're exactly right.
Speaker:I put the finish line out there, then somebody makes it,
Speaker:then we flip, and it's always hard.
Speaker:I'm I want to stay consistent.
Speaker:However we do it.
Speaker:Stay consistent and currently we've been counting it.
Speaker:And personally, that's, I feel like that's the way it should be.
Speaker:I feel like it would be helpful to people who
Speaker:who aren't really clear how it works, for you
Speaker:to, for us to step all the way back, for you, you know, you're the
Speaker:PRCA director of rodeo administration and, and hey,
Speaker:you know, Tom Glouse is the commissioner.
Speaker:How you guys work with
Speaker:the PRCA board of directors and what powers you
Speaker:guys have and don't have and how much are you guys carrying
Speaker:out with the board decides and how much do you guys decide?
Speaker:You know, as far as rules board
Speaker:has 100% of the decision making, on what
Speaker:rules get, ask, what rules don't.
Speaker:Tom is, he is, uh, He
Speaker:has the power to run all the day to day operations.
Speaker:He can make decisions, he can sign contracts.
Speaker:And I get, I can do any business thing
Speaker:as long as Tom's approved without the board.
Speaker:But rules are not touchable for me.
Speaker:I can't, you know, I can have rules proposed as a staff member.
Speaker:But the board still has to act on them and say
Speaker:yay or nay on them.
Speaker:It takes years to get a new rule pass, doesn't it?
Speaker:About 3 years, you know, time you get it posted.
Speaker:It has to sit, you know, for a couple years.
Speaker:They act on it, then it, you know, about year 3 is when it kicks in.
Speaker:It does, they can expedite rules.
Speaker:They do.
Speaker:Sometimes and it usually is.
Speaker:Does it turn out well when we do because they, it ain't
Speaker:that time to vet these, you know, you really got to think through some of these rule changes before.
Speaker:They're acted on, and that 3 year, 2
Speaker:year, 2 to 3 year process seems like a vetting time for everybody to think about.
Speaker:Would you guys want to talk about some of the biggest
Speaker:role changes for 2027?
Speaker:Is this good a time as any?
Speaker:Sure, absolutely.
Speaker:You know, and I think members, contestant wise,
Speaker:our biggest one's probably the turnout deadlines, uh, Currently
Speaker:for, since I can remember, was 3 hours and it's moved back to 5 hours.
Speaker:So, it is a benefit for,
Speaker:um, I think it's a bigger benefit for kind of incondestants,
Speaker:because as you know, Kendra, if they had a morning slack,
Speaker:8 AM slack somewhere, the turnout deadline was 5
Speaker:PM the night before.
Speaker:So, you know, a lot of things happen
Speaker:in middle of night, whether you, was that a rodeo competing?
Speaker:Now it's a real time 5 hour, so at 8 AM slack,
Speaker:you know, turns into a 3 AM turnout deadlight.
Speaker:And the biggest changes, now it's implemented
Speaker:on real time, you do it on your phone or on your app.
Speaker:And it's real time.
Speaker:You can do it from your couch.
Speaker:You can do it from your car.
Speaker:You don't have to call anybody.
Speaker:You can just push a button.
Speaker:So what's the benefit of that to contestants?
Speaker:They can, you know, a lot of time debate contestants
Speaker:are up at a rodeo on that night.
Speaker:You know, say Friday night and they're
Speaker:up at a slack Saturday morning.
Speaker:Well, they had to turn out the slack.
Speaker:At 5 PM.
Speaker:What if they get hurt that night at the rodeo or injured?
Speaker:They had no way to turn out.
Speaker:They already passed the deadline.
Speaker:Now that turnout deadline for them is 3 AM for a 8 AM slack.
Speaker:Does it also allow for more walk up replacements?
Speaker:Um, I think it's the same opportunity for walk up replacements.
Speaker:We don't replace people in the slack.
Speaker:You can't walk up in the slack. unless it's
Speaker:a perform, you know, you have to be in a performance to be on the walkout.
Speaker:It could.
Speaker:You know, it gives them more time to figure out who's going to walk up.
Speaker:There's a couple more hours there.
Speaker:Give stock contractors more time to, uh,
Speaker:uh, you know, put their day sheets together, they run
Speaker:a show, their stock list with it, you know, gives them a couple extra hours on that.
Speaker:I think there's benefit for all.
Speaker:What other big rules are changing in 2027?
Speaker:Big, the big rules, uh, stock contractor memberships
Speaker:have really, you know, we've been on a 2 year, uh,
Speaker:Not selling any new memberships in the stock contract in the world.
Speaker:They open that back up.
Speaker:October 1st and it, uh,
Speaker:financially it's a big, a larger investment than
Speaker:what economy was.
Speaker:Um, I think in the past, about 67,000
Speaker:could get you started, and now I think it's 175,000, so it's quite a jump.
Speaker:Who's that money going to?
Speaker:Well, that's that's membership fees.
Speaker:That's bond.
Speaker:Um, inspection fees.
Speaker:Uh, the, you get a bond.
Speaker:You know, you have to put a bond up for 3 years.
Speaker:You get it back, which is a 100 thousand.
Speaker:Of that.
Speaker:Did it used to be that you could only get in if
Speaker:you bought out somebody else's old existing card?
Speaker:There was a, yeah, for there was a few years of that way too,
Speaker:and you can still get in that way.
Speaker:But now you, and you have to have a lot of the,
Speaker:the rodeo, you have to find 5 new rodeos.
Speaker:Uh, $5,000.
Speaker:Anybody with $165,000
Speaker:in 5 new rodeos can now pretend to be a stock contractor.
Speaker:If they have the stock, if they beat the stock requirement.
Speaker:And that's the inspection.
Speaker:Inspection, and you have to have 50 horses,
Speaker:25 bulls, uh, and all that, yes.
Speaker:There's some evaluation processors you go through.
Speaker:And who does the evaluations?
Speaker:Uh, you know, the valuation, we go actually
Speaker:sit and watch some of their rodeos.
Speaker:Whether they're amateur or whatever.
Speaker:Do they have to own all those bulls and bucking
Speaker:horses or can they be subcontracted?
Speaker:Nope, they have to own a minimum of 50 horses and 25 bulls.
Speaker:How good do they have to be?
Speaker:Uh, you know, we
Speaker:don't have that process yet, you know, if you have 25.
Speaker:You don't really know how to judge them correctly, so you'd have a hard time with that.
Speaker:That's exactly right
Speaker:We'd have to.
Speaker:find a real judge.
Speaker:But that's some of the big changes
Speaker:we have here this year.
Speaker:Um, they're, okay, what about,
Speaker:there's one that has spoken to a lot of my cowboy
Speaker:friends that now, you have to add 2500
Speaker:per event, minimum to become a PRC rodeo, is that right?
Speaker:That's common.
Speaker:Um, This, if you're a brand new rodeo
Speaker:coming, yes, you have to have 2500 or more per van.
Speaker:Um, but if you're an existing rodeo,
Speaker:you have 3 years to get to that.
Speaker:What was the previous minimum?
Speaker:Uh, $500.
Speaker:Yikes.
Speaker:So that's fantastic.
Speaker:2030
Speaker:I believe it is, everybody will be at minimum of 25.
Speaker:That's progress.
Speaker:It is.
Speaker:I mean, it's 1500 this year.
Speaker:It jumps to 2000 and then it goes to, to uh, 25.
Speaker:What about the one in a short thing?
Speaker:They passed a rule where you have to have in the time defense?
Speaker:You have to have 2 full go rounds.
Speaker:to have a finals in the time?
Speaker:Why is that?
Speaker:What's what's the benefit for people who don't understand that?
Speaker:Our time event, guys?
Speaker:They don't like one go round in a short go for whatever reason.
Speaker:They just feel like their odds of getting through are not as good.
Speaker:So the time to get guys like the 2 go rounds, you
Speaker:know, costs more to get there.
Speaker:So they like to be guaranteed to go route.
Speaker:It also cost the rodeo committee a lot more money.
Speaker:We had about 3 or 4 rodeos that
Speaker:didn't meet that requirement currently.
Speaker:Um, and that was Casper Caldwell, maybe Tucson.
Speaker:And there may be one more that didn't meet.
Speaker:So my question, and I did ask out about that.
Speaker:I'm like, talk to me about one in the shorts, you know, they're not going to have that anymore.
Speaker:He goes, thank goodness.
Speaker:He goes, we hated it.
Speaker:It's fundamentally like a, like a one header.
Speaker:You know, you have to draw something just to get a 2nd chance and
Speaker:if you've gone somewhere else.
Speaker:Then you have to go back, you know, so like
Speaker:he's like, I take a 2 straight 2 or
Speaker:a 2 and a short all day long.
Speaker:Everybody would, you know, because you don't have to draw the best one and all that kind of stuff,
Speaker:but, but do you feel, do you have a, a
Speaker:gut at, at how rodeos will respond?
Speaker:The ones that had one in a short?
Speaker:Do you think that they'll go to 2 in a short?
Speaker:Oh, I'm not sure, because it's a, as Tommy Jokin could
Speaker:verify, the cost of an additional go round is quite high.
Speaker:You know, there's some costs there.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I think each committee's going to have to look and decide what if they want to.
Speaker:Yeah, well, it it doesn't essentially
Speaker:double your cost, but you can take,
Speaker:you can take your original cost for any particular timed event.
Speaker:And multiply that time 60%.
Speaker:And that's what it's going to cost you.
Speaker:To do that.
Speaker:And that's, you know, I know, I know it doesn't matter.
Speaker:It needs to be great for the cowboys, but that is.
Speaker:That's a tough pill for some of these events.
Speaker:And we, that's why we all need to talk
Speaker:and also compromise happens.
Speaker:We, we, we talk about it all the time, Tommy Joe.
Speaker:If we don't ultimately look out for the greatest good of the sport.
Speaker:Then we all lose.
Speaker:But the sport is ran by the Cowboys.
Speaker:The PRCA is a Cowboy Association, and
Speaker:the control, the ultimate control is by the Cowboys, fair enough.
Speaker:That's what we all agree.
Speaker:So that means that ultimately things fall.
Speaker:On the cowboy side, more than it does.
Speaker:The other people.
Speaker:And that's fine because that's the governing body of
Speaker:the sport and probably should be.
Speaker:But the reality is, that there's
Speaker:way more influence on what the cowboys want than what's
Speaker:good for the committees or the fans or that, there's
Speaker:more influence for what is good for the cowboys.
Speaker:And that's what makes it even more difficult, is you've got 9 disciplines,
Speaker:technically, all of them with different needs and wants that
Speaker:makes their particular part of rodeo great.
Speaker:And that's the balancing act that Knowles has to deal with and
Speaker:properties and everything on a daily basis.
Speaker:I'm not saying that it's easy.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But even in every event, you have such diversity
Speaker:in what people are seeking, whether they're a circuit
Speaker:contestant or a top 15 person or whatever it is.
Speaker:Um, on the hardcore contestant type stuff.
Speaker:Okay, here we are, we just stepped
Speaker:into September, and if all goes
Speaker:according to plan, um, there will be, uh,
Speaker:some of the New Mexico, uh, ports are going to open to
Speaker:M branded cattle, which, which I have just
Speaker:kind of written about, you know, the
Speaker:subject, and looking at it from, from all, all
Speaker:viewpoints, I think, you know, a lot of the cowboys
Speaker:historically prefer the embryans, but, but in fairness, the native
Speaker:Have saved the day and also, in fairness,
Speaker:the cattle they're about to come across, the horned cattle, from
Speaker:Mexico will, in a lot of people's words, be a
Speaker:drop in the bucket, you know, to the to the supply and demand,
Speaker:to the need, um, to the demand for for cattle.
Speaker:So the PRCA while the border's been closed.
Speaker:Knowles, tell us a little bit about that as far as, um,
Speaker:there was, how the rules have at
Speaker:least temporarily changed to, to allow for the use of,
Speaker:of native cattle.
Speaker:And in the words of Tyler Wagisbach saying to me the other day, you
Speaker:know, thank you to the producers of native cattle, especially
Speaker:people who manage them well and know how to break them incorrectly because
Speaker:they have kept us in a job, you know, while the embrands were not here.
Speaker:And I agree, you know, in our rule, the
Speaker:steer wrestling is the only rule that says you have to use Mexican bred cattle.
Speaker:The team are open just as Mexican descent, which,
Speaker:I mean, long orange or Mexican descent.
Speaker:So, the, and Riley Duval has been wonderful with these
Speaker:communities and stock contractors and had to, had to approve
Speaker:natives.
Speaker:Um, and I don't know a lot about it, but they say natives are, are
Speaker:hard to keep, honest or even or whatever the word is.
Speaker:You know, they're smart.
Speaker:And so Riley has had a lot of patience
Speaker:and circled around and done a lot of sorting.
Speaker:To make these natives good.
Speaker:I think you're going to see.
Speaker:I don't know, but I think we might see a pen of natives at the NFR this year.
Speaker:Very fine.
Speaker:Bobby Joe Hill said that he, if
Speaker:everything goes according to plan and they are crossed in time, that
Speaker:that will be the case.
Speaker:Well, he was talking about the team roughing cattle.
Speaker:Um, but, but the thing, uh,
Speaker:you know, one of the basics that came out of all my conversations
Speaker:with the various people in the, you know, um,
Speaker:Bulldog and team rapping cattle industry
Speaker:is that, for one thing, you know, the natives are younger.
Speaker:And they haven't lived as hard of a life.
Speaker:And, and, you know, it, it, but people, there
Speaker:are a lot of people raising native cattle that are
Speaker:doing one hell of a job.
Speaker:We will all say that and say thank you to them.
Speaker:And I think the native cattle will just develop so fast.
Speaker:You know, the Mexican calorie just on tough, tough
Speaker:times down there, and they don't develop, you know,
Speaker:our, our calorie just grow faster.
Speaker:The, The conditions are better.
Speaker:So I think it makes them grow faster than we'd like.
Speaker:We'd rather a slower growth.
Speaker:You know, a later maturing animal, but we've got to use what we can use.
Speaker:I tell you at the NFR this year, if we do use native
Speaker:cattle, we'll bring its 4th pin of cattle.
Speaker:to where you don't have to run anything uh, more than 3 times.
Speaker:Currently, we have to run one of those pins a 4th time.
Speaker:And they say that 4th run on the natives would really be rough.
Speaker:Well, the ones that learn tricks, it's going to get worse, right?
Speaker:Yeah, but they all learn tricks.
Speaker:Oh my.
Speaker:I can't believe that you guys can have a 30 minute conversation about cows.
Speaker:Holy moly.
Speaker:Well, but it but the so the
Speaker:only thing I have to add, because you know, this stuff is beyond my
Speaker:expertise, but it sounds like
Speaker:if I'm buying something to rent, the
Speaker:M branded cattle, you can rent them, they're much more competitive
Speaker:for much longer time because they basically don't,
Speaker:they've been eating on 6 blades of grass their whole life.
Speaker:They can live on rocks and they don't grow.
Speaker:So it's like buying a DeWalt drill compared to
Speaker:some cheap one.
Speaker:Um, they just last longer.
Speaker:So it seems like they're a better investment.
Speaker:You got to, don't you have to alternate native cattle more just
Speaker:because they get too big too quick?
Speaker:I think so.
Speaker:I think so.
Speaker:And you, you gotta, you can't just take them week after week.
Speaker:I think they got to have some rest.
Speaker:I see.
Speaker:Just don't know if they're tough enough internally.
Speaker:Well, while we're talking about the NFR.
Speaker:It was probably a year ago whenever you jumped on with us last time.
Speaker:We had a conversation.
Speaker:Well, it's probably you've been on with us several times, once a
Speaker:year usually, and we love when you come on.
Speaker:But the one of the years, a couple years ago was
Speaker:when you were implementing instant replay at the NFL.
Speaker:But you were implementing it only.
Speaker:For like 3 calls.
Speaker:I'm making that up.
Speaker:But it wasn't very much, which I think was a brilliant decision to make sure you got it right.
Speaker:Then you expanded it last year.
Speaker:With a complete catastrophe during it.
Speaker:Again, I'm not
Speaker:I'm just saying from a perception standpoint, right?
Speaker:Um, the Stetson Wright deal seemed like a blown deal.
Speaker:We don't I don't even want to get into that.
Speaker:I'm over that.
Speaker:You know, and I think Stetson, everybody's over it.
Speaker:But so my question to you is instant replay NFR
Speaker:2026, what can you tell us about the
Speaker:judging and instant replay?
Speaker:We didn't change anything from last year on the rules.
Speaker:Um, you know, we're, we're, we're, Replaying
Speaker:time, slaps, um, you know, disqualifications
Speaker:of any kind, markouts.
Speaker:So we're consistent this year with what we did last
Speaker:year, barrier calls.
Speaker:Um, And we'll have 2 people in the replay
Speaker:booth together to confirm, you know, to
Speaker:work together to, to do it.
Speaker:And, and maybe even, we're considering just to
Speaker:tick more time to make your decision, you know, not, not
Speaker:5 minutes by no means, but a few more seconds if we need, you know, we can slow down.
Speaker:Yeah, come on.
Speaker:I heard that they only had X amount of seconds and
Speaker:that's complete baloney.
Speaker:If you're gonna, this is, this is it.
Speaker:This is the Super Bowl.
Speaker:I know there's people out there
Speaker:dont like me calling it that.
Speaker:But this is the Super Bowl.
Speaker:Yeah, if you're gonna do it, get it right.
Speaker:And I'm 100% in your favor on that.
Speaker:Give them time because here's the other thing.
Speaker:Remember initially, you and I talked.
Speaker:We all talked about the fact that you had to convince the field judges.
Speaker:So bear with me, listeners, to go ahead and throw the flag.
Speaker:So let's talk about a markout.
Speaker:In theory, you want to convince
Speaker:those field judges, because this is what the NFL had to convince their
Speaker:field officials to go ahead and throw
Speaker:a flag because they have to be able to rely rely
Speaker:on the replay officials and their angles to
Speaker:get it right if they saw it wrong.
Speaker:And that's a confidence thing, right?
Speaker:Who wants to be a judge out there and throw a flag and then the
Speaker:next day, 17000000 people are telling you you're
Speaker:blind, and you can't run, and you're too fat,
Speaker:and all of this stuff when, isn't it
Speaker:true, Steve, you want them to, in theory, if they think they saw it,
Speaker:they throw the flag and they've got to rely on those replay
Speaker:officials to verify that, and
Speaker:they need to have enough time to do it.
Speaker:They do fair?
Speaker:Agreed.
Speaker:And that was a that was a learning curve for us on the timing last year.
Speaker:You know, I think we, we pressed him a little too, too fast.
Speaker:Um, But you're, you're right.
Speaker:It's a confidence thing.
Speaker:You got to have confidence in it and it's a blown, you know.
Speaker:I know you don't want to talk about the Stetson Wright deal
Speaker:as a confidence guy as a judge, that could just bust you
Speaker:wide open, you know.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But we don't want that to happen.
Speaker:We wanna get it right.
Speaker:Well, and there's no doubt that he, he threw,
Speaker:he thought he saw what he saw, whether he was in the position on again.
Speaker:This is this is a very old conversation.
Speaker:But my point is, what everybody else
Speaker:saw in the replay booth or what everybody else noticed after the fact.
Speaker:Should have been noticed in the replay booth, enough said.
Speaker:100%.
Speaker:But we are, we're, we're staying consistent with our calls.
Speaker:You know, just maybe a little more time to review
Speaker:is what we're looking at.
Speaker:Other than that, we'll have 2 guys in there together.
Speaker:Now, when we're talking about judges, so we're on judges.
Speaker:I think a birdie told me.
Speaker:You guys are finally giving those guys a raise.
Speaker:Is that true?
Speaker:We did started yesterday, actually September 1st.
Speaker:Um, Tom budgeted a little, uh, not
Speaker:a large, not a large raise, you know, not life changing,
Speaker:but it's a start.
Speaker:It is a start to all the reserves.
Speaker:And it actually goes on their expense site.
Speaker:On their per diem side and their food stipe inside.
Speaker:Well, that's because coffee costs 10 bucks now.
Speaker:So you guys finally caught up to what they're spending on site.
Speaker:Well I don't know.
Speaker:They're going to have to live within their means.
Speaker:We didn't give them enough.
Speaker:So you're able to eat one sandwich and
Speaker:ramen noodles and 3 powdered donuts and
Speaker:you'll be in the PRCA per diem if they sleep in their car.
Speaker:No, we're...
Speaker:That's what I love about Knowles right there.
Speaker:That's what I love them all.
Speaker:You know, it's a several $100,000 investment on the PRC.
Speaker:When you compound that.
Speaker:So let's take that into consideration.
Speaker:When you give it to one, you give it to all, it's a big impact.
Speaker:But that's what we need.
Speaker:We have to treat these.
Speaker:I always liken rodeo judges to teachers.
Speaker:I'm like, well, I don't believe that there should be any tenure because it's
Speaker:such an important position and people shouldn't be grandfathered in, right?
Speaker:You're either, you either really care you don't, but to attract and
Speaker:and hold on to the people who are, you
Speaker:know, passionate about it and very qualified.
Speaker:They need to be paid.
Speaker:They got to, you know, you're, you're wanting some young guys
Speaker:fresh out of their rodeo career to, to consider this and you
Speaker:got to pay them enough to raise a family to have a home.
Speaker:You know, they've lived on their in their car for the 1st 10 years of their career.
Speaker:You need to pay them enough to buy a house and enjoy life.
Speaker:I mean, you got to pay that bareback rider good
Speaker:so he can flag the caff open.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:All right, deeper question, and then I'll
Speaker:kick it back over to Kendra.
Speaker:And I'm going to, you might have to think about this, but I think this would be really interesting to ask you.
Speaker:What's the hardest decision you can remember making?
Speaker:For the PRCA that people
Speaker:outside of it would never realize that had to be made.
Speaker:The hardest decision.
Speaker:It's a personal decision when I came here.
Speaker:I guess ours decision was for me to decide to come.
Speaker:I'm glad you did
Speaker:And some days my horror decisions, whether I want to go to work or not.
Speaker:Well, y'all have to.
Speaker:I've had some mornings where I'm thinking, oh, man, I don't know about this,
Speaker:but, you know, we've had some decision.
Speaker:I've had some some lifetime life
Speaker:changing decisions I've had to make with some contestants on
Speaker:rodeo account, on rules, on rulings
Speaker:that cost them from going to the NFL.
Speaker:You know, and you don't know at the time it may be
Speaker:their only chance in a lifetime.
Speaker:To go.
Speaker:I, there's 2 or 3 guys that, you know, it, it really
Speaker:was close to home to rule against him on some grievances
Speaker:that cost him from going to the NFL.
Speaker:I can understand.
Speaker:And that's where the, that's where people forget that you have.
Speaker:You have feel, you know, no, I don't want to say
Speaker:that because that makes you sound gay, but it's personal too.
Speaker:Like you understand the lifestyle part of it.
Speaker:I wanted to say you have feelings too, but I don't know if that's true.
Speaker:Well, and I do sometimes I try not to let
Speaker:my emotions get involved, but sometimes I'm human, you know.
Speaker:I do.
Speaker:I'm a fan too at the end of the day.
Speaker:I a rodeo fan.
Speaker:What misconceptions frustrate you?
Speaker:On, and so what misconceptions
Speaker:in the animal welfare game frustrate you?
Speaker:And then what, what are, what's the industry doing?
Speaker:The leaders, you guys over there in the springs doing currently
Speaker:to combat that.
Speaker:You know, you know all the misconceptions
Speaker:from the animal world, animal rights world is, you
Speaker:know, we tore in and we teach them to do this.
Speaker:We put flight straps on their genitals.
Speaker:Um, what do we, we spend?
Speaker:We spend a lot of time, money, and effort.
Speaker:You know, we pay, we have 2 lobbyists that we pay.
Speaker:Um, and sometimes I have a
Speaker:different feeling about lobbyists, you know, they're, they're politicians,
Speaker:but, but we've.
Speaker:Necessary evil.
Speaker:necessary evil.
Speaker:But they're necessary, yes.
Speaker:And so we have 2 lobbyists we pay.
Speaker:Um, you know, Scott Norncamp, he monitors all,
Speaker:all kinds of, uh, news and just
Speaker:tries to stay ahead of it.
Speaker:Dr. Corey, our veterinarian, you know, he
Speaker:stays on top of that thing, but we spend a lot of money trying
Speaker:to stay on top of that and it's, it's an uphill battle.
Speaker:I don't know sometimes if we're doing any good, but we stay on all of that.
Speaker:You're paying the lobbyist to tell the truth.
Speaker:Get the truth out there, right?
Speaker:And you know, we we send people to some of these hearings.
Speaker:We spent a lot of time in Orange County, California or
Speaker:no LA, the LA City band, what they were trying to ban rodeo.
Speaker:You know, we spend a lot of hours over there and time and money.
Speaker:And, you know, fortunately right now it's kind of at a standstill.
Speaker:They dropped it, but it'll, it'll flare back up.
Speaker:Well, you, you should have rein our roster on your payroll
Speaker:because nobody's worked harder in the Western states.
Speaker:On that front, then Reno and
Speaker:his lineage.
Speaker:So he should get a paycheck 2nd thing.
Speaker:Um, this is a shout out.
Speaker:You know, you talked about Mr. Dorn camp.
Speaker:I want to tell you he's doing a good job and I'm going to share with everybody something that I thought was fantastic.
Speaker:So, They had some trouble
Speaker:in Salinas with a Hispanic rodeo.
Speaker:This is not, has nothing to do with the PRCA,
Speaker:but it does indirectly because it, it reflects
Speaker:on the overall culture of the sport.
Speaker:Mr. Dornkamp sent me a note and said, um,
Speaker:do me a favor.
Speaker:There's a Mexican rodeo coming to Salt Lake City.
Speaker:Will you help pay, you know, let's pay attention to this.
Speaker:And that's fantastic.
Speaker:That's technically that's out of the PRCA's
Speaker:jurisdiction, but the fact that he reached out to me, had done his research.
Speaker:I then immediately acted, right?
Speaker:To put warnings out to say, make sure that these
Speaker:guys are doing things the way we do it north
Speaker:of the border, not south of the border.
Speaker:And, um, much
Speaker:respect for their culture.
Speaker:We don't do it that way up here.
Speaker:We don't do it.
Speaker:We can't, we can't do it that way up here.
Speaker:And so hats off to Mr. Dorncamp.
Speaker:He's doing a good job, Steve.
Speaker:Well, the general public doesn't always differentiate
Speaker:between a PRCA rodeo and a non-sanctioned rodeo for one thing.
Speaker:So, and to your point about Reno
Speaker:Rosser, he is his father's son.
Speaker:Cotton Rosser was, was on the forefront before there
Speaker:was a forefront.
Speaker:He, he went out of his road all the time to
Speaker:take people behind the, Scenes behind the
Speaker:chutes and show them how fat and sassy those fucking horses were
Speaker:and and really talk to them.
Speaker:And, and you know, cotton would be like, you know, what's scary
Speaker:is so many kids in America today think eggs come from the grocery store.
Speaker:you know, we have to show them.
Speaker:What, what it, what's all about, you know, to be a
Speaker:cowboy and and what it's really like.
Speaker:And, and also on the point of people
Speaker:not necessarily differentiating between
Speaker:a professional rodeo and non, The
Speaker:charros helped save the day in LA.
Speaker:When we went to battle and we went to court, the
Speaker:Charos showed up for professional rodeo, and they
Speaker:helped save the day on cultural standing,
Speaker:and and we owe them a lot.
Speaker:So if we could work together, you know, it
Speaker:would be to everyone's betterment, you know.
Speaker:The sports, it'd be best for the sport.
Speaker:You know, at Salinas, the bull riding accident they had there.
Speaker:You know, it was right in front of the chutes.
Speaker:The sign was in the background, the Salinas rodeo,
Speaker:you know, so, so you could see where people could confuse
Speaker:it with being the Salinas rodeo.
Speaker:Yeah, um, so this one's,
Speaker:yeah, I like, I wrote this question, but I don't know if I
Speaker:want to ask it, but I'm going to go ahead and ask it.
Speaker:So if you were commissioner for a day.
Speaker:Without politics or any limitations,
Speaker:you're a dictator.
Speaker:What would be your 1st change?
Speaker:Uh, you know, I'll give you a pass on that one.
Speaker:But I did want to ask it.
Speaker:Just so you crinkled up your drawers a little bit on that one.
Speaker:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker:I can't.
Speaker:That's it.
Speaker:Uh, dangerous cave to get into.
Speaker:Well, this one I think is a cool, a cool question.
Speaker:Um, and and Kendra, I would ask
Speaker:it to you too, because I think this will be interesting.
Speaker:Maybe all 3 of us respond to this question because I think it's a cool one.
Speaker:What moment in rodeo in your rodeo history,
Speaker:all 3 of us, and we'll, and we'll start with.
Speaker:With probably Kendra, because she's probably the quickest respondative.
Speaker:What moment in rodeo history gives you chill that you remember?
Speaker:Do you remember?
Speaker:Even, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker:Um, something that happened that,
Speaker:You think you
Speaker:were there and it changed the trajectory of the sport.
Speaker:Well, I don't know about changing
Speaker:the trajectory of the sport, but when you said a moment,
Speaker:For me, like the 2 that
Speaker:instantly came to my mind were Lane Frost
Speaker:dying in front of my eyes and Jake Barnes
Speaker:losing his right thumb right in front of me.
Speaker:And helping spot Alan
Speaker:Bach running in there to find it on the NFR arena floor and
Speaker:me pointing.
Speaker:I mean, that was insane.
Speaker:Those, those moments
Speaker:both give me chills and I pretty sure always will.
Speaker:Yeah, what about you, Knowles?
Speaker:Can you think about it?
Speaker:No, and sorry to be on the same.
Speaker:Pages, Kinder.
Speaker:The 1st time I went to the NFR in Las Vegas is
Speaker:when Brent Thurman got stepped on and died.
Speaker:And I still remember that, you know, vivid.
Speaker:So, you know, I don't,
Speaker:it was, you know, it's very sad today.
Speaker:I knew Brent, in on another part,
Speaker:you know, the Stetson Wright, they, you know, when I see him try.
Speaker:You know, it just gets me excited in goosebumps
Speaker:today too, you know, the guy never quits.
Speaker:Yeah, you can I can remember.
Speaker:You know, Stetson reminds me.
Speaker:Of course, now this is on the rough stock end, of course,
Speaker:because I'm not necessarily a time demand guy.
Speaker:But when Ty Murray was about to
Speaker:ride, Everybody watched.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:including me, who's seen 17000000000 rodeos.
Speaker:When Ty wrote book, well, everything Ty did,
Speaker:you watched because it was never, never
Speaker:not, never not 100%, which is probably
Speaker:not the right English, but it was always 100%,
Speaker:and, um, same thing with Stetson.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:It's just, it's, it gives me chills.
Speaker:Now the flip side of that, I'll say my dark
Speaker:side of chills, and I was there with Jerome Davis, right?
Speaker:Um, and right on the dirt floor.
Speaker:And my job was always to
Speaker:go back to Tandy, right?
Speaker:So that we could see what kind of report we could give to everybody.
Speaker:And I looked at Tandy and he just did this.
Speaker:He just, no comment, right?
Speaker:And I remember my heart.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Because, you know, we all see these people hit the ground and not move
Speaker:and all of us immediately, right?
Speaker:Or like, 0 no.
Speaker:And when they move, like if you,
Speaker:you as a spectator, you think it's great when you hear
Speaker:that someone's moving, all of us in these screens do the same thing,
Speaker:we're like, praise God.
Speaker:Praise God, you know.
Speaker:So, I thought that was.
Speaker:And when that happened, I too was working for the PVR and, and
Speaker:talking to Jerome right then and there and,
Speaker:He was.
Speaker:I mean, he was scared to death, but he was,
Speaker:you know, I, I, like he believed
Speaker:he was, he was, you know, his, his positive
Speaker:mind was not saying die, you know, and,
Speaker:and he's like, I'm, I'm going
Speaker:to keep, you know, getting up out of bed every day.
Speaker:But I don't know, Kendra, if I'll be still be
Speaker:this joyful and, you know, if, if you talk to me in 10 years
Speaker:and I, and I'm still on this chair.
Speaker:I don't know if I'll be this good of a sport about it.
Speaker:By golly, to his credit, he's
Speaker:done amazing things and keeps doing amazing things.
Speaker:That's his sidekick his wife, right?
Speaker:Those 2 are superheroes.
Speaker:They are inspirations for everybody.
Speaker:They're awesome.
Speaker:I'll tell you on one more thing on Jerome.
Speaker:I was judging some PBR bull ridings at the time and not
Speaker:long after that, we went to Charlotte.
Speaker:Cody said you weren't a very good judge, by the way.
Speaker:Tough heat him and push Drome out there in his wheelchair.
Speaker:And it was the most emotional thing I've
Speaker:probably ever witnessed, you know.
Speaker:Because for those who don't know, Jerome got hurt at Tufts bull riding.
Speaker:And and that, I will never
Speaker:forget being at, at the finals that year,
Speaker:there was a, there was an event, you know,
Speaker:to raise money for Jerome, and tough auctioned
Speaker:off his, his gold buckle.
Speaker:And, um,
Speaker:And I remember him saying, all
Speaker:you sons of bitches with pocket paw, like, something about pocket
Speaker:palsy, like, get your hands out of your pockets, get your hands in the air, you know?
Speaker:But, um, tough took that.
Speaker:That deal hard and um, never
Speaker:let up on being Jerome's friend.
Speaker:He was a great friend in Rome.
Speaker:He was a great friend.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:All right, well, we went pretty good.
Speaker:Let's, um, I'll do one more and then if, if, if
Speaker:Kendra has one more.
Speaker:I think this one's kind of more of a, I'm interested
Speaker:in your input on this.
Speaker:In our last podcast.
Speaker:Um, when we were talking to Billy Ward.
Speaker:You know, today's rodeo athlete
Speaker:is much more of a sports athlete, it seems like, right?
Speaker:Um, where 50 years ago,
Speaker:these were more kids off of ranches, right?
Speaker:That were developed in a lot of different ways.
Speaker:Do you think that the evolution
Speaker:of rodeo, like where do you balance tradition?
Speaker:And evolution.
Speaker:Do you guys in the office, I'm sure this comes up all the time, right?
Speaker:Well, this rodeo's done it this way for 50 years, well, we're changing the rule.
Speaker:Where do you?
Speaker:how can how do you make that decision?
Speaker:How do all of us make that decision?
Speaker:Right, of protecting what got us here.
Speaker:But accepting evolution
Speaker:so we can grow.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:We fight that all the time.
Speaker:You know, we we want to honor art history.
Speaker:We always want to honor our history, but I don't think we can let it hold us back either.
Speaker:There's always going to be evolution.
Speaker:There's always going to be bigger and better contestants, bigger
Speaker:and better bulls and horses and whatever.
Speaker:Um, I think we got to honor our history and
Speaker:keep looking forward and keep evolving, or if we
Speaker:keep doing the same thing we've always done, you know what the results are, Tommy, though.
Speaker:And, you know, we'll be out of business.
Speaker:So, I think we really have to forge ahead and just keep honoring our history.
Speaker:Miss Santos, since you're the expert.
Speaker:You run, you were on this.
Speaker:When you talk about, um, the
Speaker:athletes that, that, you know, they used to call them cowboys
Speaker:and now they call them, Athletes, um,
Speaker:the one cautionary tale, uh,
Speaker:The 1st person I thought of when you were talking
Speaker:about that, how today's athletes, and I thought, I, whatever
Speaker:reason, I thought of J.B. Mooney, and I, and, and
Speaker:I'm like, he's got a cigarette and one hand a beer in the other,
Speaker:and he's a gangster, but I don't know that you should follow his
Speaker:lead if you want to be the king of bull riding today.
Speaker:But, um, he pulled it off, but that's because there's only
Speaker:one JB Mooney ever.
Speaker:So there, there is that.
Speaker:But, but I think, you know, when you're talking about the,
Speaker:the athletes today, it's just because it's so tough.
Speaker:Like, Steve, you're talking about this sport evolving.
Speaker:I mean, you know, it's like, oh, just, just
Speaker:go to the caff roping, look at the evolution of the, you
Speaker:know, Dean Oliver hands the torch to Roy
Speaker:Cooper, and, you know, along the way, there's Joe Beaver
Speaker:and Fred Whitfield and Cody Ole, and, you know, um,
Speaker:on down the line, and everything
Speaker:keeps evolving.
Speaker:And that's healthy.
Speaker:But that doesn't mean we have to turn our back on our history either, so it is.
Speaker:I mean, it is, it is a.
Speaker:It is a line we walk because some
Speaker:of our traditions are what make us different than every other sport in the world and
Speaker:and what make us cool.
Speaker:Um, I feel like Knowles,
Speaker:I can't let you go without asking a tough question.
Speaker:Sorry, um, leave it to me.
Speaker:But, um,
Speaker:The question would be why some rodeos
Speaker:are allowed.
Speaker:Ground rules that go against the
Speaker:PRCA rule book.
Speaker:That, And, and,
Speaker:I know it, it aggravates people, you
Speaker:know, they want, you know, they want every football field to be the
Speaker:same size, every arena, but unfortunately for us,
Speaker:there's, there's rodeos and different areas
Speaker:of the world where we have to be a little different tie
Speaker:down roping rules or a little, in,
Speaker:in my humble opinion, and this is going to make some people laugh.
Speaker:Um, You know, you got rodeos that
Speaker:are adding $2000000 or whatever, the
Speaker:Houston, the Calgary.
Speaker:I mean, I think maybe you are should be considered
Speaker:for a few different little rules.
Speaker:We can't treat everybody.
Speaker:We'd like to, but we just can't.
Speaker:you know in today's world.
Speaker:Well, let me let me refine that because I think the
Speaker:way you put it, probably, let
Speaker:me help refine this a little bit.
Speaker:I think Kendra and I talked about this before.
Speaker:It's not fair, nor
Speaker:is it practical.
Speaker:To think that a rodeo in Houston.
Speaker:And a rodeo in Shimbug,
Speaker:Logan, Louisiana.
Speaker:Have the same set of problems,
Speaker:circumstances, environment, they
Speaker:can't, they if you force them to all to live
Speaker:in a box, then they'll all just grow together.
Speaker:The big ones will get smaller.
Speaker:The smaller ones will get a little bit bigger if you force
Speaker:everybody into the box, which is why you guys took a
Speaker:small step in creating another category for rodeos.
Speaker:But the truth is, there is now, and Kendra and I talked about this.
Speaker:There, there should be a huge
Speaker:rodeo category, like whatever you want to call it.
Speaker:Like, these are above way above everything
Speaker:else, and you can't, those rodeos
Speaker:and include some of the rodeos on the west coast, they can't live in the same
Speaker:rules, Kendra.
Speaker:It's just not feasible.
Speaker:Now, we're trying to force it.
Speaker:But it is damning.
Speaker:It's not good for our sport.
Speaker:I think one thing that gets interesting for me.
Speaker:I'm, you know, into wide open conversations and
Speaker:and, if your idea is better than mine.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:Like we all need to keep talking.
Speaker:And I think part of the trick about all
Speaker:of us having this wide open conversation is that
Speaker:it's not always best for the sport for
Speaker:us to have these wide open conversations publicly.
Speaker:Do you see my point?
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:Um, So, you know, that's where
Speaker:it gets a little bit tricky.
Speaker:Because part of me, fundamental, you know, on basic principle
Speaker:is like, well, the rules apply to everybody.
Speaker:There may, you may explain to me, hey, this,
Speaker:this will not fly here and here's why.
Speaker:But then it gets tricky for me like,
Speaker:man, we're, you know.
Speaker:Are we keeping a secret and that's dangerous?
Speaker:You're right.
Speaker:You know, different states have different speed limits.
Speaker:You know, so we're not all the same driving, but
Speaker:when we do do this, let's say a Houston, Calgary.
Speaker:Who reached the benefits as a membership?
Speaker:You know, we do this for the membership.
Speaker:We want this money in our members' pockets.
Speaker:We want it to count.
Speaker:Um, you know, some of them rodeos are big
Speaker:enough to do their own thing as you know.
Speaker:We want to be their partner.
Speaker:We don't want to lose one rodeo.
Speaker:I'm I'm greedy.
Speaker:I want every rodeo under the PRCA umbrella if we can get.
Speaker:For for those who are who then I
Speaker:can hear the peanut gallery saying, oh, well, they're
Speaker:just giving in because is it still 6% that
Speaker:goes to the PRCA off the top?
Speaker:Uh, no, on those $1000000 rodeo there's a flat fee.
Speaker:It's cat.
Speaker:There's a flat fee.
Speaker:Okay, but for people who want to come at you and say, you're just
Speaker:letting them slide because they give the PRC so much money, what do you say to them?
Speaker:Yes, their money, you know, we and we have made
Speaker:a lot of money here in the last 5 years here.
Speaker:Um, you know, it's give us a lot.
Speaker:We give it back.
Speaker:Like, it's, we don't get to take it home.
Speaker:You know, it's it's the members money.
Speaker:You know, we recycle it and it goes back out in their pockets some.
Speaker:Every bit, every bit of that money does, but what it does it cost to run the office.
Speaker:Um, we've had a very good run here lately.
Speaker:And we are, you know, we remember COVID.
Speaker:So we do want to have a little money stockpile.
Speaker:For the COVID.
Speaker:area, whatever the next COVID is, you know, we want
Speaker:to be able to put on the NFR without bar all at
Speaker:a dime as to PRC.
Speaker:That's our goal to have that kind of money, you know, in reserve.
Speaker:But Kendra, if you were the commissioner, if you took,
Speaker:if you look at this, I have a question for you.
Speaker:The PR the Houston, Houston.
Speaker:Doesn't have to have the PRCA.
Speaker:To still have great cowboys.
Speaker:And you're sitting as the boss of the PRC in
Speaker:Houston comes to you and says, We want to be a PRC rodeo.
Speaker:But you have to do this or this, or
Speaker:we just won't be a PRCA rodeo and all of your guys are going
Speaker:to come compete.
Speaker:I mean.
Speaker:What you just explained to people is very helpful though, because
Speaker:the questions I ask usually come from the
Speaker:cowboy parking lot, okay?
Speaker:And to answer those questions publicly
Speaker:and openly and honestly is very helpful to a lot of people.
Speaker:Just say.
Speaker:I made it, you know, I made it clear.
Speaker:I'm probably not going to make everybody happy with my answers, but let
Speaker:me just clarify on Houston, Tommy Joe.
Speaker:They actually go by every PR team.
Speaker:And I'm not.
Speaker:I'm actually not.
Speaker:I'm not, my point was,
Speaker:any rodeo of that size, when
Speaker:you have 1000000s of dollars of prize money,
Speaker:If the from the contestant standpoint, they need to go.
Speaker:They need to go.
Speaker:And I want it to be under our umbrella.
Speaker:You know, and if we make money off of, that's great, Kendra.
Speaker:going to end up back in the member's pocket.
Speaker:Well, and also, and there used to be a statistic that,
Speaker:that, Back on a former CFO.
Speaker:He used to throw out the statistic.
Speaker:I don't know what it is today that 88 of
Speaker:every dollar that came in the door went back out to the members.
Speaker:I, I, I think that you're pretty close and I don't know that number
Speaker:for a fact, but that's, you're close.
Speaker:You're close.
Speaker:People know what we're like.
Speaker:And and and also for people who who don't really think through
Speaker:all of this, like we do all the time, is there's
Speaker:also a huge incentive for these huge rodeos to
Speaker:to want to be Pierce 8 and to have a
Speaker:big impact on the NFR conversation and who makes it, right?
Speaker:That's a big incentive for them.
Speaker:That I think that's the whole bait is the
Speaker:NFR for all these committees.
Speaker:And and we're we're fortunate enough.
Speaker:Uh, to have that on our side, that NFR,
Speaker:you know, what a wonderful thing to have.
Speaker:Well, that's what that's what the PRCA's
Speaker:had, that has been the demise of every other competing entity.
Speaker:historically.
Speaker:They lose because they don't have the NFR.
Speaker:They have good ideas and sometimes they have money.
Speaker:But they don't have the NFR, and they lose
Speaker:because you always, the best are always
Speaker:carrying a PRCA card.
Speaker:Like that's the truth.
Speaker:They might be doing other things, but if you're if you're
Speaker:a PRCA rodeo, the very best in the world have
Speaker:the opportunity to compete at your rodeo.
Speaker:And that's a big deal.
Speaker:That's a big deal.
Speaker:Knowles, are you going to pack up and move to Cheyenne?
Speaker:Um, I don't know.
Speaker:I'm committed to get the office there.
Speaker:I am committed to get get us moved.
Speaker:You know, it's only too little over 2 years away.
Speaker:And I always wanted to go south.
Speaker:I never dreamed of heading north from here.
Speaker:But it's only 3 hours.
Speaker:It's not very far, so.
Speaker:I'm committed to getting the office there.
Speaker:I think it's a good move for all the Naysayers out.
Speaker:It's a fantastic, smart.
Speaker:Well calculated, well done
Speaker:move, everybody who says otherwise just
Speaker:doesn't.
Speaker:Why do you say that?
Speaker:Me?
Speaker:Explain yourself.
Speaker:Yeah, just curious.
Speaker:Financial, I don't know.
Speaker:Financially, the the agreement, the way it was, right?
Speaker:You're able to take the property that they have in Colorado Springs,
Speaker:reinvest that in the Hall of Fame and other things that need
Speaker:that money to survive, go to a brand new place
Speaker:with facilities and ground on the corner
Speaker:of 2 major interstates in a rodeo
Speaker:welcoming state, right?
Speaker:And build this out the way you dream to build it.
Speaker:And oh, by the way, well, what about the people, the Hall of
Speaker:Fame at Colorado Springs?
Speaker:Let me tell you something.
Speaker:More people will walk in front of the Hall of Fame during the Cheyenne frontier
Speaker:days than they ever do at Colorado Springs.
Speaker:So all of these people that I see that are seeing,
Speaker:uh, uh, well, now this is not good for some of the employees
Speaker:that want to live in Colorado Springs, but Colorado Springs
Speaker:is crunchy.
Speaker:It's crunchy.
Speaker:It's Karen.
Speaker:Wyoming's not.
Speaker:I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't do the deal unless
Speaker:it was financially backwards, Kendra, and it's financially
Speaker:a windfall for the membership of the PRCA.
Speaker:It's just, it's, it's, to me, nobody's
Speaker:convinced me that this is not a no-brainer.
Speaker:And they hand us a deed.
Speaker:To the point be in the building when we move in.
Speaker:It's just, we're committed to creating jobs there.
Speaker:I think it's great.
Speaker:You know, and I think five, 10 years from now, it'll be old news.
Speaker:And you know, nobody, nobody put Bernard on the,
Speaker:the guillotine block when he went from.
Speaker:I remember when we were in the springs at the tiny little office in
Speaker:Tihan, up at the top, and Pueblo offered
Speaker:to build them out a really nice cool thing, and Pueblo's
Speaker:not near as cool as Colorado Springs, frankly,
Speaker:in my opinion, and everybody went down there and
Speaker:I didn't see Bernard getting strung up.
Speaker:Well, maybe he did.
Speaker:And they moved again, I think.
Speaker:Now they're in Fort Worth, aren't they?
Speaker:Fort Worth, Texas.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Well, this has been Steve, thank you for joining us.
Speaker:It's refreshing.
Speaker:For you, you know, I wish that
Speaker:the PRCA would have you and you guys, here's to Kinder's point.
Speaker:The open communication would
Speaker:be of such value to the PRCA, the
Speaker:transparency and an effort to make sure that happens,
Speaker:because I know you guys have your head down and you're
Speaker:working into Kendra's point.
Speaker:If there was a little more communication,
Speaker:because I don't know that there's a lack of transparency, I think there's a lack of effort.
Speaker:To communicate.
Speaker:to the world that wants to know why you
Speaker:guys are doing the darn things you're doing up there.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:We, we, we need to get better at communication, even
Speaker:in internally.
Speaker:We are not really good communicators.
Speaker:We live in our silos.
Speaker:Sometimes somebody, somebody tells me their side of the story and I'm like,
Speaker:Wow, great idea.
Speaker:I never would have thought of that, you know?
Speaker:Well, we want to thank all of you listeners.
Speaker:Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker:I'm going to throw it up.
Speaker:If you want feedback.
Speaker:If you have questions, concerns, you want us to find out from Knowles.
Speaker:He will occasionally answer our texts.
Speaker:You can text us at 817-668-2395
Speaker:or you can email us at nospin feedback
Speaker:at gmail.com.
Speaker:If you didn't get that.
Speaker:Just do me a favor and rewind because I don't want to say it again.
Speaker:Hey, episode 110, no spin rodeo.
Speaker:Thank you, Mr. Knowles.
Speaker:Thank you to the wonderful Kendra Santos, one
Speaker:of my good friends and a friend to the rodeo industry.
Speaker:Until we meet again.
Speaker:Y'all be safe.
Speaker:Don't take anything for granted.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:Life is a gift.
Speaker:It's not, it's not as bad as you think it is.
Speaker:Things are better than you think they are.
Speaker:God bless all of you.
Speaker:will see you next time.
Speaker:This has been no spin road.
